Westward Ho! RND proposed course changes

« **on:** July 14, 2018, 07:06:02 AM »

I spotted this MacKenzie & Ebert plan for changes to the course at Westward Ho!/RND following last years storm damage. Hope it shows up here -

Numerous changes including to that most wonderful of green complexes, the 9th! Yikes!

If you haven't yet played WH!/RND I suggest you do so soon.

atb
D

« **Reply #1 on:** July 14, 2018, 07:44:23 AM »

Dai

Thanks for posting. I've not played RND so no idea as to what they are giving up in making the changes. The only comments I'd make are that I'm always a bit dubious about links holes having the sort of kinks and serpentine shaped fairways as seem to be proposed for the 7th and 9th, unless of course the topography demands it.

You could well imagine a scenario for instance on the 7th where a player might be have the length to reach the green when you allow for the run of the ball but not the carry to get over what ever it is that has caused the kink in the fairway. That might lead to say a 7 iron followed by a wedge, which is not very satisfactory. To me, links golf is more defined by slipping the ball by hazards rather than carrying them.

The other comment is making the 9th green more receptive for a long par 4 shot approach. Presumably that is for the scratch golfer as I note the weaker player will be further away with his tee shot and therefore presumably playing it as a three shotter in which case why not leave the green alone ? Particularly if it is a favourite as suggested. Besides a little unfairness makes for better golf IMO.

Niall

« **Reply #2 on:** July 14, 2018, 08:16:22 AM »

Soon, every links course in GB&I will have been redesigned by Martin Ebert.

I, for one, don’t think that’s a particularly healthy situation.

But it’s the prerogative of the individual clubs I guess.

« **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2018, 08:45:37 AM »

I can understand some of the changes because of the encroachment of the sea. It breaks my heart to see changes to 9. I always felt it was one of the great par fives in England.

« **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2018, 08:50:10 AM »

Here is a very detailed hole-by-hole thread about Westward Ho!/RND which might be of assistance is considering the M&E plan posted above - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54567.0.html

And here is Rans recent Courses by Country piece - http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/england/royal-north-devon/

Niall, you need to find a way to play WH!/RND. There’s a marmite element to the course for sure but it’s uniqueness and variety needs to be experienced. If you ever decide to head that way let me know and I’d be delighted to join you.

One of the courses great attractions to me is it’s openness and the resulting options it gives to different sorts of players to hit tee and second etc shots into such positions as to permit different angles into the greens. Options and choices and course management. And some of the green complexes are wonderfully cunning and challenging if inappropriate options are taken. The 9th hole and 9th green are great examples of this.

Atb

« **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2018, 09:37:24 AM »

If they change the ninth green at Royal North Devon they'll spend the afterlife in a much warmer place.

« **Reply #6 on:** July 14, 2018, 10:11:30 AM »

Ally

As a practising golf architect I can understand your comments about ME but is this any different to times gone by when Hawtree was the go-to gca, and before that Braid, or Colt or whoever ? There has generally been one gca at any point in time who has hovered up a fair share of the business going.

In any case I suspect he's only advised on a relatively low number when you look at it and in a lot of instances I suspect the work would have been minimal. The important thing for me is the quality of the work. I should add that notwithstanding my comments in the previous post, I've generally liked what I've seen.

Niall

« **Reply #7 on:** July 14, 2018, 10:41:51 AM »

Niall,

I do not wish to take comments much further than saying I see too much tinkering for the sake of tinkering.

That and I don’t think you know the extent of courses he is advising on.

Good luck to him though - there’s some very good work.

Ally

« **Reply #8 on:** July 14, 2018, 02:02:23 PM »

I was an international member for five years and played six or seven rounds there a year. I love the place. The more I look at the proposed changes to nine and the green, the less I like it. It was nigh on to perfect. It was reachable for mortals like me. But where do you hit your second shot? The bunker in the middle front of the green created big problems as do the contours on the green and the contours left and right of the green. I found the right side the better option but it demanded a long accurate shot.

« **Reply #9 on:** July 14, 2018, 04:13:54 PM »

Quote from: Ally Mcintosh on July 14, 2018, 10:41:51 AM

Niall,

I do not wish to take comments much further than saying I see too much tinkering for the sake of tinkering.

That and I don’t think you know the extent of courses he is advising on.

Good luck to him though - there’s some very good work.

Ally

Ally

Would you say the work at Portrush fell into that latter category?

« **Reply #10 on:** July 14, 2018, 09:00:34 PM »

Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 14, 2018, 09:37:24 AM

If they change the ninth green at Royal North Devon they'll spend the afterlife in a much warmer place.

+1

There is a thread on this site where Tom names holes he would like to eventually use as templates. RND 9 is one of them.

« **Reply #11 on:** July 14, 2018, 11:04:26 PM »

Quote from: Garland Bayley on July 14, 2018, 09:00:34 PM

Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 14, 2018, 09:37:24 AM
If they change the ninth green at Royal North Devon they'll spend the afterlife in a much warmer place.

+1

There is a thread on this site where Tom names holes he would like to eventually use as templates. RND 9 is one of them.

I sent the Secretary a letter this morning expressing hope they would preserve the 9th green.

If they decide to change it I will ask to go survey it first so I can replicate it somewhere else ... and so they will have the information in case they have regrets later.

« **Reply #12 on:** July 15, 2018, 03:32:40 AM »

Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 14, 2018, 11:04:26 PM

I sent the Secretary a letter this morning expressing hope they would preserve the 9th green.
If they decide to change it I will ask to go survey it first so I can replicate it somewhere else ... and so they will have the information in case they have regrets later.

Well done Tom!

atb

PS - for those who can access it, here is the post on the RND/WH! Twitter account - https://twitter.com/RNDGolfclub - scroll down a little, it's near the top at the moment

« **Reply #13 on:** July 15, 2018, 05:28:48 PM »

Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 14, 2018, 11:04:26 PM

Quote from: Garland Bayley on July 14, 2018, 09:00:34 PM
Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 14, 2018, 09:37:24 AM
If they change the ninth green at Royal North Devon they'll spend the afterlife in a much warmer place.

+1

There is a thread on this site where Tom names holes he would like to eventually use as templates. RND 9 is one of them.

I sent the Secretary a letter this morning expressing hope they would preserve the 9th green.

If they decide to change it I will ask to go survey it first so I can replicate it somewhere else ... and so they will have the information in case they have regrets later.

Too late Tom, it got changed into three bunkers a few years back.

« **Reply #14 on:** July 16, 2018, 01:03:27 PM »

Quote from: Ally Mcintosh on July 14, 2018, 10:41:51 AM

Niall,

I do not wish to take comments much further than saying I see too much tinkering for the sake of tinkering.

That and I don’t think you know the extent of courses he is advising on.

Good luck to him though - there’s some very good work.

Ally

Ally

You're correct, I've no idea how much work ME gets from clubs with links courses but I'd assumed that most of them aren't having anything done, or at least nothing that involves an architect, so therefore ME's portfolio of work would still be relatively minimal in percentage terms even if noteworthy.

However the tinkering thing is an interesting one, as one mans tinkering is another mans huge improvement or calamitous error depending whether you like the changes.

Niall

« **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2018, 06:40:36 AM »

I really need to play here before it falls into the sea. Calling the UK contingent. Who's up for a road trip?

« **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2018, 08:22:21 AM »

Robin

When Dai suggested I visit and he'd join me, I checked it out on google maps and the road trip each way was something like 7.5 hours. Not that that would put me off if I/we could maybe build in a game on the way down and one on the way back.

Thoughts ?

Niall

« **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2018, 08:30:23 AM »

Niall: I'd be coming over from Hampshire, which is 3.5 hours. At a push I could do it in a day, but with Saunton so nearby it would be madness to pass it by. Might be one for the early autumn, once family holidays are taken care of.

« **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2018, 09:13:38 AM »

I'd be in!

Early Oct would be a good time. Play RND/WH and both Saunton courses. Schools are back whilst accommodation and golf are better priced and the weather is usually decent. Also, fingers crossed, any work they are intending to do may not yet have commenced. RND/WH being on common land would probably be best played M-F rather than S-S.
atb

« **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2018, 10:52:58 AM »

Excellent. One more and we have a fourball !!

Niall

« **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2018, 12:22:09 PM »

I might be interested, depending on dates. I am scheduled to play Saunton on 20/21 October so maybe something around that date? If not, maybe earlier?

Ciao

« **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2018, 02:00:46 PM »

Quote from: Ally Mcintosh on July 14, 2018, 08:16:22 AM

Soon, every links course in GB&I will have been redesigned by Martin Ebert.

I, for one, don’t think that’s a particularly healthy situation.

But it’s the prerogative of the individual clubs I guess.

FWIW this is a Tom Mackenzie job.

« **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2018, 02:03:30 PM »

Quote from: Robin_Hiseman on July 17, 2018, 06:40:36 AM

I really need to play here before it falls into the sea. Calling the UK contingent. Who's up for a road trip?

I'm in

« **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2018, 04:45:30 PM »

Quote from: Robin_Hiseman on July 17, 2018, 06:40:36 AM

I really need to play here before it falls into the sea. Calling the UK contingent. Who's up for a road trip?

I'm in as well!

On a related topic, what other courses have had to make such changes due to coastal erosion? I can only think of Formby? Other courses where they are constantly battling the erosion, such as Brancaster or Golspie, havent made such drastic changes to their holes, just beefed up their defences?

Cheers,

James

« **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2018, 05:24:38 PM »

Didn't Doonbeg lose a couple of holes or maybe tees. May have been from the storms a few years back.

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